Microsoft Research Community

Tif files saved with ICE can't be read by other tools

rated by 0 users
This post has 14 Replies | 5 Followers

Top 200 Contributor
Posts 4
jbeauche Posted: 10-29-2008 11:39 AM

Hello,

 Just to let you know that when I save file in tif format from ICE it can't be read with Nikon Captore NX 2.

 Using Capture NX 2 I can read any tif files except the ones created using ICE.

 

Regards

Jean

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 139

That's odd.  I don't know about Captore NX, but I have opened ICE tif files with Photoshop and with the built in Windows image viewers. 

What size is the tif file you are trying to open?  I have seen issues with some applications opening tif files that get into the 100s of megapixels. 

Matt Uyttendaele
Top 25 Contributor
Posts 40

Also, there's a bug in Image Composite Editor that allows it to emit TIFF files that are greater than 2GB, but those files will be invalid. Was your export that big?

-Bryan
Image Composite Editor Team

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 48

 Can it be read by the Windows shell or by Office Picture Manager? Microsoft has a bad legacy of introducing image formats and TIF compression methods that are not supported across its product line (e.g. FPX/MIX, MODI TIFF).

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 139

As far as I know it can.  We are writing out a basic uncompressed tif.  Not inventing anything new here.  If you have any specific problems with a tif file I'd be happy to look at it.

Matt Uyttendaele
Top 200 Contributor
Posts 4

Yes the file was pretty big... but not as big as 2 GB.. it was made out of 3 files from a 12 megapixels camera.

 I'm on the road for the next few days. I dont have access to the file. I can give you more information about the file when I'll be back home.

 

Top 500 Contributor
Posts 2

 I just had the same problem with Capture NX2 (latest version 2.1.0). It just says: "Cannot open file". Paint Shop Pro opens it fine. 15MB from 2 images.

 

BTW - the software is fantastic. I am a panonewbie but excited to try out some more shots with this great software.

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 139

ICE generates simple uncompressed tiff images.  All programs that I have tried can open these.  Did you also try reporting the issue to Nikon?

Matt Uyttendaele
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 2

I have not, but it does seem to be a Nikon problem. I can open the tif in every other image app i have on my PC.

NX is pretty unpredictable sometimes.  Love/Hate relationship. Love the way it handles NEF files. Hate the speed and quirky UI.

Top 200 Contributor
Posts 4

I did not report yet to Nikon, but I think I will... With Capture NX 2,  I was able to open other tif files. I taught it was related to ICE.

 

Top 500 Contributor
Posts 2
Is this bug solved already? I have the same problem. I tried to make 2Gpixel picture using Microsoft ICE (by stitching ~ 500 images in grid topology, I have robotic head GigaPan). It succeed in solution and saving. I choose TIFF in 100% size. It produces 8.6GB TIFF file (it is ~standard for Gigapixel pictures, no surprice :D), but I cannot open this file. I tried to use various 'standard' tools for Gigapixel pictures (XnView, ImageMagic, IrfanView, GIMP, ...) but file is not readable. Even File properties are strange, it does not contain any information about resolution. Real resolution for this picture is 98481x22367 (it was reported by ICE during saving procedure). I use 64-bit version of ICE and I run Windows Vista 64-bit with 8GB memory... It is not HW or OS problem. It has to be some problem in ICE... :( Please help, Jan Burianek [BURSOFT(c)] Czech Republic P.S. It is sad because I love ICE. It is so fast and results are so nice. Please please please MS experts/developers solve this problem for Gigapixel community... JB
\\ Jan Burianek - BURSOFT(c) // Project Specialist - Czech Republic \\ www.bursoft.org
Top 10 Contributor
Posts 139

Unfortunately you are hitting the limits of tiff.  We should disable tiff output for such large images.  At this point the only option in ICE to output such large images is the deepzoom or hdview output. 

What is the next step of proceessing that you plan for your 2Gpix tiff?

 

Matt Uyttendaele
Top 200 Contributor
Posts 4

Just to let you know that since I've post this message, I've found new information.

The problem I have is not related to the size of the tiff file. No matter, the file size, I can't open it in Capture NX 2

Nikon told me that they only support tiff files made out of Nikon camera or software.  (tiff file format is not suppose to be a standard ? The Nikon response appears weird to m, but it's Nikon)

Because I'm running with Vista 64 bits, they don't want to support me (They don't support Capture NX 2 on 64 bits) (I'm using ICE 64 bits)

If I create a panorama using Windows Live Photo Gallery and save it into a tiff file, Capture NX 2 can open it.

If I create the same panorama using ICE 64 and save into tiff, Capture NX 2 cannot open it.

It seems that there is a difference on how to save tiff files between ICE and Windows Live Photo Gallery ( I'm using WLPG Version 2008 Build 12.0.1347.718 and ICE Version 1.2 Release 1 Built Nov 25 2008 16:39:1)

Since I've update to ICE 1.2 Release 1, in some panoramas (not all) that I'm trying to stich, I'm having some 'sort of' banding issues in the blending zones. Sitching the same pictures using Windows Live Photo Gallery, I do not have this problem. Everything is fine. But this is another issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Top 10 Contributor
Posts 139

User tomas017 figured out the issue on another thread: http://community.research.microsoft.com/forums/t/2400.aspx 

NX2 apparently does not support tiffs that contain an alpha channel.  ICE stores an alpha channel in the tiff file.

Matt Uyttendaele
Top 500 Contributor
Posts 2

 I am (almost) sure that 2Gpix photos does not hit any limit of TIFF. TIFF and PNG format are two the only ISO standard formats which can handle such big pictures. There is no problem to store even 16Gpix TIFF (it is already proven on Linux 64-bit implementations of stitchers etc.). 

 I just tried to debug the problem with ICE version of big TIFF. I found that it does not use this format properly. If you read specification carefully there is limit to 'data strip'. It means, you have to use more than one strip for storing such big pictures. ICE uses just one strip and it is limited to 2GB. It is my observation, but I am just amater TIFF I/O routine programmer :). 

 At Gigapixel picture postprocessing/usage: GigaPixel pictures are hevily used for urban documentation and historical artefact digitalization. I just captured one nice historical portait/painting using GigaPan robotic head. I use GigaPan.org viewer (see: http://www.gigapan.org/viewGigapan.php?id=11803 for example) or I prefere Microsoft HD View or Microsoft Silverlight DeepZoom technology) for interactive viewing such pictures. It is quite detailed and novel view of previously unseen details. 

Unfortunately ones you capture hundereds of images and stitch them into final picture it is not usually perfect. You need some post-processing in PhotoShop / GIMP and simimar tools. It is why I use TIFF format for storing such pictures.

I prefere HD View format for viewing usually and it works. But if you need some postprocessing I have to save TIFF file, do postprocessing and continue by HDmake utility (but even HDmake tool cannot read ICE TIFF format...).

I found some problem with RGBA, that is why many tools does not accept ICE TIFF version of format. One strange thing: even 400Mpix image (~1,4GB) are not readable for Photoshop Elements and ImageMagic Identify tool reports warnings regarding some unspecified tags. It seems to be some deep problem with TIFF format violation or large-file support... It has to be debugged probably.

Suggestion: how about Windows Media Picture? If ICE can write hyper-resolution images in WMP then I can use PhotoShop plugin for this format a try postprocessing in this format... It would be also very nice solution (and probably relatively easy to do + 'politicaly correct').

Thank you for any help/suggestion.

  Jan Burianek

 

\\ Jan Burianek - BURSOFT(c) // Project Specialist - Czech Republic \\ www.bursoft.org
Page 1 of 1 (15 items) | RSS
©2009 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use | Trademarks | Privacy Statement | Feedback